Tuesday, March 07, 2006
Does That Count?
Last week, I went to a talk given by Lee Strobel, a very well known Christian apologist. Lee Strobel also claims to have been an atheist for thirty years. He said a great many interesting things, but the one that has stuck with me the most is when he stated that Christians have an unfair advantage in debate, because "The truth is on our side."
Atheists obviously do not like Lee Strobel. Initially this troubled me. "How can you not like him?" I ask to the imaginary group of atheists. "He was one of you!" But that assertion is down right idiotic. He is obviously not an atheist.
So I have to wonder, what makes a guy like this tick? After thirty years of atheism, how can he stand there and so openly declare that Christians have truth on their side? How is he not haunted by the doubts and struggles that I battle daily? Perhaps he was not really an atheist. Could he just be saying that to try to add what hip hop would call "street cred" to his message? Maybe he was really just casually indifferent for awhile, and not a real hard core disbelieving skeptic.
That could be, but still it does not seem to get to the real core of the matter. At some point, it came up that his wife was a Christian first. AHA! Now this is significant. I think many, if not all of you would agree that the rules guiding a man's life change when there is a woman involved. reason and rationality are usually the first to go.
So I can not help but to question, if this man became a Christian because of his wife, can that really be considered a legitimate conversion?
does that count?
Atheists obviously do not like Lee Strobel. Initially this troubled me. "How can you not like him?" I ask to the imaginary group of atheists. "He was one of you!" But that assertion is down right idiotic. He is obviously not an atheist.
So I have to wonder, what makes a guy like this tick? After thirty years of atheism, how can he stand there and so openly declare that Christians have truth on their side? How is he not haunted by the doubts and struggles that I battle daily? Perhaps he was not really an atheist. Could he just be saying that to try to add what hip hop would call "street cred" to his message? Maybe he was really just casually indifferent for awhile, and not a real hard core disbelieving skeptic.
That could be, but still it does not seem to get to the real core of the matter. At some point, it came up that his wife was a Christian first. AHA! Now this is significant. I think many, if not all of you would agree that the rules guiding a man's life change when there is a woman involved. reason and rationality are usually the first to go.
So I can not help but to question, if this man became a Christian because of his wife, can that really be considered a legitimate conversion?
does that count?
Comments:
This was not actually a rhetorical question. But it is really quite unreasonable of me to expect anyone to comment when I have the tendency to either ignore or be openly hostile to the few comments I do get.
Besides, Mr. Strobel is one of the most respected apologists of the day- where do I get the audacity to question his salvation? That is not really what I was asking. I was simply using him as an example to ask a broader question.
It does not even matter that no one chose to answer, for I already know:
"It does not make any difference what causes someone to begin their spiritual journey. What matters is the state of their heart, and whether or not they choose to genuinely accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, and enter into a personal relationship with Him..."
I had a dramatic ending planned here with Bible verses and all, but they do not actually say what I remembered them saying, so I'm going to have to skip that. Have a nice day.
Besides, Mr. Strobel is one of the most respected apologists of the day- where do I get the audacity to question his salvation? That is not really what I was asking. I was simply using him as an example to ask a broader question.
It does not even matter that no one chose to answer, for I already know:
"It does not make any difference what causes someone to begin their spiritual journey. What matters is the state of their heart, and whether or not they choose to genuinely accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, and enter into a personal relationship with Him..."
I had a dramatic ending planned here with Bible verses and all, but they do not actually say what I remembered them saying, so I'm going to have to skip that. Have a nice day.
truth is what you believe.
what christians have is more reason for belief because the authority they give their faith to is an outside authority.
christians believe more, therefore they are more true...?
even if he were one of "them" (atheist) there is a major flaw in the idea that because one proclaims themselves as part of a group the group actually likes them!
weak men...
legitimate...?
is it the path or the end result what matters huh?
what christians have is more reason for belief because the authority they give their faith to is an outside authority.
christians believe more, therefore they are more true...?
even if he were one of "them" (atheist) there is a major flaw in the idea that because one proclaims themselves as part of a group the group actually likes them!
weak men...
legitimate...?
is it the path or the end result what matters huh?
# posted by 
: 3/12/2006 1:47 PM
: 3/12/2006 1:47 PM
maybe this is also a problem in 'dicussions'
have you even decided what the fuck that means? (state of their heart, and whether or not they choose to genuinely accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, and enter into a personal relationship with Him...)
what did they say in your head?
i will, you too
have you even decided what the fuck that means? (state of their heart, and whether or not they choose to genuinely accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, and enter into a personal relationship with Him...)
what did they say in your head?
i will, you too
# posted by : 3/12/2006 1:50 PM
: 3/12/2006 1:50 PM
I went to Lee's site and saw some clips of his talks on the case for a creator. the thing that struck me the most was how careful he was not to say that his evidence for the existance of a creator, or initial cause, was positive proof of the existance of a single-eternal-god-who-gave-his-only begotten-son-to-the-world-to-ensure its-salvation. At first I thought "sure, it isn't proof positive, it is only pointing out that the christian view does not directly contradict science. To say otherwise would be the end of his argument because it would be an unreasonable jump in logic." That sat well for a little while. Then Lee Strobel said something that made me laugh out loud. He took his argument off of the table for a minute by saying "in my personal opinion..." after introducing a sentence like that, he could have said anything and it would have done nothing to wreck his credibility, since he is not presenting a conclusion in a chain of logic, but his own personal view. He said, "personal opinion, the evidence from cosmology and the evidence from physics, to me, is probably enough to convince..."
He's not convinced. He gave himself a free ticket to express his personal opinion, and he could not express a strong positive statement. I think he is a person who needs a strongly held working system. At somepoint he decided that christianity is a more working system that he can hold to more strongly than atheism. He may have left off believing in a universe without a god, but he hasn't bought the christian alternative yet either. Thats what I think
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He's not convinced. He gave himself a free ticket to express his personal opinion, and he could not express a strong positive statement. I think he is a person who needs a strongly held working system. At somepoint he decided that christianity is a more working system that he can hold to more strongly than atheism. He may have left off believing in a universe without a god, but he hasn't bought the christian alternative yet either. Thats what I think
# posted by : 3/13/2006 2:34 PM
: 3/13/2006 2:34 PM
